วันอังคาร, กันยายน 05, 2560

ถึง‘ยิ่งลักษณ์’ ไม่อยู่ การต่อสู้เพื่อประชาธิปไตยยังดำรงต่อไป (Yingluck's flight won't derail Thai fight for democracy, all sides agree) - ‘ธิดา-อภิสิทธิ์’ เปิดใจ






Yingluck's flight won't derail Thai fight for democracy, all sides agree

Political notables weigh in on next general election and possible post-vote landscape


September 3, 2017
Source: Nikkei Asian Review

BANGKOK -- Thai politicians are still digesting the significance of the apparent flight of former Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra ahead of a supreme court verdict that could have sent her to jail for up to 10 years.

Speaking to the Nikkei Asian Review, Tida Thawornseth, chief advisor of the United Front for Democracy Against Dictatorship, a political group close to former Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra, was sympathetic to Yingluck and pledged to continue the fight for democracy and the rule of law. The UDD's Red Shirts remain supportive of Yingluck and her brother Thaksin. 

Former Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva, leader of the Democrat party, the largest rival to Thaksin's Pheu Thai party, said that his party remains committed to reducing economic disparities and fighting corruption, and hopes to win more support ahead of the general election planned for next year.





Tida Thawornseth, chief advisor of the United Front for Democracy Against Dictatorship (UDD): Thaksin and Yingluck still popular

Q: What impact does Yingluck's escape have on the UDD and its supporters?


A: We are not angry because we understand her. We understand Thaksin, too. To change the country, we understand the limitations of people -- of each group. I think it was good for her to make that decision.

There were some Red Shirt extremists who wanted to see Yingluck in jail. They like her, of course, but they wanted her to be a tool [for] change in this country. But we can't expect Yingluck to be a hero like Aung San Suu Kyi. Suu Kyi was under house arrest, but Yingluck would be placed in jail.

I think Thaksin didn't want to put Yingluck in jail for one single day. Yingluck chose to fight but Thaksin [may] have told her to go away. She didn't give up or surrender.

I believe that her escape doesn't mean that she will give up fighting politically. Politics in this country is like a play -- fooling each other. There is a famous saying in China that among the 36 strategies of war, the best strategy is to escape. By escaping you can come back, but if you die you cannot.

Q: What effect will Yingluck's flight have on the ruling National Council for Peace and Order and Thai politics?

A: The escape of Yingluck makes the situation better for the NCPO. The political temperature and pressure are lower. The stock market has gone up because investors know that her escape will [allow the] NCPO to keep power for five, 10 or 20 years.

The military government and its conservative supporters have always wanted to get rid of the parties related to Thaksin. But they failed in the previous [2006] coup. They think [the 2014 coup] should be the last coup. Right now, the military government has sweeping powers under a special article in the constitution. They can do anything with no responsibility.

They are trying to prepare everything for the next five, 10, 20 years with the binding National Strategy Plan. They are preparing for Prayuth Chan-ocha to become prime minister backed by 250 senators.

Q: Will the general election be held as planned?


A: The military government [is under] pressure to hold a general election, but they will take their time. They will think of every way to destroy Thaksin's party through the establishment of election laws and political party laws. They will hold an election only when they are sure that the winner will not have any relationship with Thaksin.

Q: Would Pheu Thai still be able to win?


A: Yingluck and Thaksin are still popular among Red Shirt supporters because they never give up. People support Yingluck because she fights for the rule of law and for justice. Dictatorship cannot create the rule of law. Conservative people are afraid that Thaksin will be like Singapore's former prime minister, Lee Kwan Yew. Populism is thought of as dangerous in the conservative camp. They tried to destroy not only Yingluck and Thaksin, but also their policies [by calling] it populism. But now that they have come to power, they are doing the same things. They are also giving out subsidies to the poor and to farmers.

Thaksin showed the people that they can change the country by choosing the prime minister. He showed that they can have better lives through democracy. He may have done some bad things, but no one can replace him.

The conservatives will try to destroy the Thaksin camp in the upcoming election. The junta will use various laws and committees to find faults with the Pheu Thai candidates, such as labeling some of their acts as vote buying.

The conservatives know that if they have democracy, Thaksin can win every [election]. That is why they are changing the law, but that is not enough. It is like they are using a sword on sand. They cannot destroy sand, and the people are like sand.

Q: What will UDD do to gain more support?

A: We will wait for the right time to oppose dictatorship. I don't know when. Not only do we want quantity, but also quality. We want more middle-class people and academics to join our camp. The voices of the middle class can become louder than the mass. A strong mass is of course important for the party, but that is not enough to fight.

It is a strange situation in this country where the mass wants democracy while the academics, intellectuals, and big businesses want dictatorship. This country should learn that they are a special case in the world.





Abhisit Vejjajiva, leader of the Democrat party, former prime minister: Pheu Thai must move away from Shinawatras, tackle corruption

Q: How do you view Yingluck's escape?

A: In a way, when you look back, it is not all that surprising. There was always this possibility as people were expecting a dramatic verdict on Aug. 25th. But one of the things that is not good for the country is that you get a sense that the rich and the privileged somehow have the option of not being brought under the legal process.

It cannot be denied that some people feel relieved because they were fearful that whatever verdict came out, there might be dissatisfaction and trouble. But it is not the end of the process. The court can still read out the verdict on Sep. 27th, and we don't yet know what that will be. Therefore, we also do not know how the former prime minister will react to this and what her next move will be.

Q: What is the impact on Pheu Thai and its support for the Shinawatra family?


A: As far as the Pheu Thai party and their supporters are concerned, nothing much has changed because of all this. Yingluck was barred from politics since her impeachment, so they were going to have to work under a new leader anyway.

The bigger question is if this has an impact on the role of the Shinawatra family on the party. We see no signs of fundamental changes yet because it is clear that Thaksin is still making noises as seen with his recent post on Twitter [about tyranny and justice].

And of course they are used to the situation. This is almost a repetition of when Thaksin himself left the country. Nevertheless, he continued to wield influence over the party and to conduct things from abroad.

Q: What will be the Democrat party's next move?

A: We see our challenge as proving ourselves to be the party that will address the problems of the Thai people, which is clearly about the economy -- especially in rural areas and among the poor. That is being compounded by the exacerbation of the problem of inequality. There is a need for structural change, a need to address issues like corruption, and a need to push some fundamental reforms. That is our agenda. We are not -- and we should not be -- worried about how Pheu Thai is going to adapt itself to the new environment. We will deliver the message that we are the people that the Thai people can trust, and who can move the country forward.

I think many Thais are looking beyond the current situation. They hope that the elections will bring a stronger economy, and a more responsive government that can drive proper reforms with clear visions. Our vision is clear: it is time to empower the people and reduce the power of the state, which will lead to a stronger economy.

Q: The Democrat pledge to improve the lives at the grassroots and support democracy appears to resonate with Pheu Thai, which also advocates empowerment. Will the Democrats work with Pheu Thai towards the elections?


A: One key part of our agenda is the fight against corruption. It will take quite something for Pheu Thai to prove that they are also a part of this agenda.

The party has issued a statement that they will move forward, but they have not shown any indication that they have learnt anything from the corruption case. The recent court verdict, which sentenced Boonson Teriyapirom, the former commerce minister in Yingluck's administration, to jail for his involvement in corruption, has made clear how Pheu Thai's policies are conducive to corruption. Yes, we want to make the farmers happy and so do they. But the difference is that when we design subsidies for them, most of the money spent will go directly to the farmers with only some administrative costs. That is the key difference. It will be hard for Pheu Thai to change unless they step out of the shadows of the Shinawatra family.

Q: Could a military-backed party be a potential coalition partner for the Democrats?

A: I believe there are ongoing efforts to form new parties, and some are tied to the military. Our priority is our agenda. They will have to convince us that whoever they propose as their leader would be the best person to carry out the agenda. If the party is to be led by Prime Minister Prayuth Chan-ocha, he would have a lot to prove in the next year in terms of the empowerment of the Thai people. If his approach continues to be very bureaucratic, we don't think it will be good enough. I cannot rule anything out, but the priority is delivering the agenda that Thailand needs.

The current administration may feel that they have certain legal powers and mechanisms to do what they want. But I think that they will have to listen to the people once they go to the ballot boxes. Their reluctance to move to full democracy is based on the past behavior of certain politicians. We want to prove that you can have an elected government that practices good governance as well. We think it is unfair to the Thai people if they can only choose between dictatorship and corruption.

Q: How are you preparing for the next election?

A: We are not allowed to do political activities, but I, as an individual, have been meeting and exchanging views with all groups in the country -- from farmers and workers to various business sectors -- to see what the problems are.

It is not easy to gauge the mood of the people when you are not allowed to have political activity and when open public discussions of overtly political things are not taking place. But in the south, where we have been strong, I still see strong bonds with our supporters. Also, people in the north and many areas of the northeast appear to be more willing to at least listen to us. But there is no denying that Pheu Thai is holding on quite strongly to their base too.

Q: The military government is in the process of getting all parties to sign a reconciliation pact. What is your take on that?

A: The success of reconciliation is not [about] whether we have a pact that everybody signs. We will only know after the elections whether reconciliation has succeeded or not -- whether the Thai political system becomes stable with mechanisms within the constitution, within a system of democracy, that can work without violence and without more coups. There has to be a new culture of dialogue and of give and take. The Thai people will have to deliver reconciliation. The current government, or any single government, cannot create it.

It is important for political parties to prove we have learnt our lessons, too. We are all to blame for where the country is today. We have to recognize that even if we did have elections with winners and losers, we can't revert to the same old ways. The winners have to respect the law and not abuse power. It is not that having a majority means they can do whatever they like.

Interviewed by Nikkei staff writers Yukako Ono and Hiroshi Kotani

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สื่อนอกเปิดใจ ‘ธิดา-อภิสิทธิ์’






By กองบรรณาธิการ ข่าวต่างประเทศ
4 กันยายน 2560
Voice TV 21


นปช.เปิดใจสื่อญี่ปุ่น คนเสื้อแดงเข้าใจ ‘ยิ่งลักษณ์’ ขณะหัวหน้าพรรคปชป.เหน็บอภิสิทธิ์ชนหนีกระบวนการยุติธรรม ปัดร่วมมือเพื่อไทยเพราะประชาธิปัตย์มุ่งปราบโกง ไม่ปฏิเสธจับมือพรรคทหารฟอร์มรัฐบาล

เว็บไซต์หนังสือพิมพ์ นิกเกอิ เอเชียน รีวิว เผยแพร่บทสัมภาษณ์ท่าทีของสองฝักฝ่ายในการเมืองไทย ที่ปรึกษาแนวร่วมประชาธิปไตยต่อต้านเผด็จการแห่งชาติ นางธิดา ถาวรเศรษฐ ประกบกับหัวหน้าพรรคประชาธิปัตย์ นายอภิสิทธิ์ เวชชาชีวะ

นางธิดาตอบคำถามกรณีอดีตนายกรัฐมนตรี ยิ่งลักษณ์ ชินวัตร หลบออกนอกประเทศว่า เราไม่โกรธเพราะเข้าใจเธอ และเข้าใจนายทักษิณ นับเป็นเรื่องดีที่เธอตัดสินใจเช่นนั้น คนเสื้อแดงสุดโต่งบางส่วนอยากให้คุณยิ่งลักษณ์ติดคุก เพื่อให้เธอเป็นเครื่องมือเพื่อให้ประเทศเปลี่ยนแปลง แต่เราไม่อาจหวังให้เธอเป็นอองซาน ซูจีได้ ซูจีถูกกักบริเวณในบ้านพัก แต่ยิ่งลักษณ์จะต้องติดคุก

ต่อข้อถามว่า พรรคเพื่อไทยจะชนะเลือกตั้งอีกหรือไม่ ที่ปรึกษานปช.ตอบว่า นางสาวยิ่งลักษณ์กับนายทักษิณยังคงเป็นที่ชื่นชอบของคนเสื้อแดง ฝ่ายอนุรักษนิยมมองว่าประชานิยมเป็นอันตราย พยายามทำลายทักษิณกับยิ่งลักษณ์และนโยบายของคนทั้งสองโดยเรียกว่า ประชานิยม แต่เมื่อพวกเขาได้อำนาจ พวกเขาก็ทำอย่างเดียวกัน แจกเงินอุดหนุนให้คนจนและเกษตรกรเช่นกัน

นางธิดาบอกด้วยว่า นปช.จะรอคอยโอกาสที่จะต่อต้านเผด็จการ ไม่รู้ว่าจะเป็นเมื่อไร เราต้องการผู้สนับสนุนทั้งปริมาณและคุณภาพ อยากให้คนชั้นกลางและนักวิชาการเข้าร่วมกับเราเพิ่มขึ้น เสียงของคนชั้นกลางดังกว่าของมวลชน มวลชนเข้มแข็งเป็นสิ่งสำคัญ แต่นั่นยังไม่เพียงพอ

ด้านนายอภิสิทธิ์แสดงความเห็นต่อการหลบหนีของนางสาวยิ่งลักษณ์ว่า ไม่น่าแปลกใจ แต่เรื่องหนึ่งที่ไม่ดีสำหรับประเทศคือ คุณจะรู้สึกว่าเศรษฐีและอภิสิทธิ์ชนมีทางเลือกที่จะไม่เข้าสู่กระบวนการตามกฎหมาย

เมื่อถามว่า พรรคประชาธิปัตย์จะทำอะไรต่อไป นายอภิสิทธิ์ตอบว่า เราจะพิสูจน์ตัวเองว่าเป็นพรรคการเมืองที่สามารถแก้ปัญหาเศรษฐกิจได้ โดยเฉพาะในเขตชนบทและในหมู่คนยากคนจน ซึ่งถูกทับถมด้วยปัญหาความเหลื่อมล้ำ และต้องแก้ปัญหาคอรัปชั่นด้วย เรามีวิสัยทัศน์ที่ชัดเจนว่า ถึงเวลาต้องลดอำนาจรัฐ เพิ่มอำนาจประชาชน

ต่อข้อซักถามว่า ฟังดูเหมือนนโยบายของพรรคเพื่อไทย แล้วประชาธิปัตย์จะร่วมงานกับเพื่อไทยเพื่อไปสู่การเลือกตั้งหรือไม่ หัวหน้าพรรคประชาธิปัตย์กล่าวว่า นโยบายของเราต่อต้านการโกงกิน พรรคเพื่อไทยต้องพิสูจน์ว่าเห็นด้วยกับเรื่องนี้

เมื่อถามว่า ประชาธิปัตย์จะร่วมรัฐบาลกับพรรคทหารหรือไม่ นายอภิสิทธิ์กล่าวว่า มีความพยายามก่อตั้งพรรคที่เชื่อมโยงกับทหาร เราให้ความสำคัญกับนโยบาย บุคคลที่จะมาเป็นนายกรัฐมนตรีต้องทำตามนโยบาย ถ้าพรรคที่จัดตั้งขึ้นนั้นนำโดยพล.อ.ประยุทธ์ จันทร์โอชา ท่านต้องพิสูจน์ในเรื่องการเพิ่มอำนาจประชาชน

“ผมไม่สามารถปฏิเสธความเป็นไปได้ แต่สิ่งสำคัญคือ ดำเนินนโยบายที่ประเทศต้องการ” หัวหน้าพรรคประชาธิปัตย์กล่าว และว่า รัฐบาลปัจจุบันคิดว่าตัวเองมีอำนาจที่จะทำอะไรก็ได้ แต่ตนคิดว่าต้องรับฟังประชาชนเมื่อเข้าสู่สนามเลือกตั้ง

นายอภิสิทธิ์กล่าวอีกว่า ทหารลังเลที่จะไปสู่ประชาธิปไตยเต็มรูปแบบเพราะพฤติกรรมของนักการเมืองบางคน เราต้องการพิสูจน์ว่า รัฐบาลเลือกตั้งสามารถปกครองอย่างมีธรรมาภิบาลได้

“ไม่เป็นธรรมสำหรับคนไทย ที่จะเลือกได้แค่เอาเผด็จการ หรือเอาพวกโกงกิน” นายอภิสิทธิ์กล่าว.

Source: Nikkei Asian Review

Photo: AFP